AT friends #3: Tim Straub of Down the Rabbit Hole

Timothy Straub writes Down the Rabbit Hole on Substack (the only substack I'm a paying subscriber to), and was my High School English teacher.

@Latenthomer: I wanna give you the pitch. I've been, like, pitching people on [AT Proto] and I want you to be honest because there's a moment where [people's] eyes glaze over. So are you ready? Can I sell you on why–

Timothy Straub: [laughs] Yes, I'm ready.

Okay, Alright, So Substack–

Alright, well I gotta get going Jake, it's been nice seein' ya! [Mimes getting up]

[laughs] So Substack is great, and people do great things with it. You're doing great things with it. But it's a platform, [not a] a protocol. So think about email [which is a protocol] versus facebook [which is a platform]. Like, if I have a Microsoft email and you have a Yahoo we can still email each other but if I'm on facebook and you're on twitter we can't message each other.

When you make a protocol, you're allowing anyone who can figure out how to [implement the protocol] technically to [participate]. And so that's like the simplest explanation and I've often already lost people.

The other thing is open source. I remember hearing about open source as a kid it was this very weird idea, like hippy-dippy, everybody's holding hands. And [open source software is] not like that at all, but it actually has won. The world really does run on open source software. So the people who are really excited about Open Social are like, it's gonna happen with the social media too it just might take 10 years. What do you think so far?

Yeah, I actually get it. It's really not that complicated, right? I mean, today it's definitely different than it was 15, 20 years ago when it was pretty much a free-for-all and coders were building upon each other all the time. They saw the value in that, but, now, it's become proprietary, like, "That's mine!"

Tomorrow, if they jacked up the prices, how would you get what you're getting from Substack in another place? With a protocol if Substack didn't do a good job someone else could come and be like we do the same thing [as Substack and you can easily migrate].

Yeah, the whole Substack thing – I'm not drawn to it. When I first saw it, I said, okay, it was just a means of putting my writing out there.

I have boxes filled with notebooks of all my writing from the past 40 years, and, to a large degree, never sent it out into the world for, and I think it's a common refrain, fear of rejection. So you go your entire life and so, yes, you're unburdening yourself, and it's allowed me not to have to get, and pay for, a therapist.

But the Substack part, yeah, I just wandered into it, and that was probably four years ago. [Now] I've got, what, like 45 people who are subscribed and I bring in $220 a year on it.

The other thing about Substack is I find it easy. It's not what it was four years ago. You know how things are when they grow or people start coming to them. Now they have all kinds of writers. I correspond back and forth with Sherman Alexie, which is nice. So that's one of the things I like about it.

And then you have people who are well established who are piling on, and then you have all the little bitty writers who are, like, "Oh nobody likes me now! Oh they're taking all my friends from me!" You see a lot of griping from writers.

Give me your hot takes on AI.

It's not a great surprise. People have been speaking about it for a long time. If you just go back and look at science fiction they've been writing about it for as long as science fiction's been a genre.

Have you not had a moment of surprise with talking to the AI?

I don't – I guess when you say AI do you mean like Siri?

I mean, I don't think Siri–

ChatGPT?

ChatGPT, yeah.

[Siri responds in background] Siri just heard me. "What do you want lover boy?"

No, the first time I heard the phrase "Singularity" used was around 25 years ago and I listened, I heard it, and I thought: "Huh, I can see that. That makes perfect sense. It's just technological evolution. It makes plain sense to me."

But I guess I'm asking–I'll say for myself I can remember when I tried ChatGPT being very surprised. I don't think I expected that in my lifetime, frankly. That I could ask a computer a question and get an answer back.

Well I guess I'd have to answer that in two parts. The first part is, every time I did a Google search the computer was giving me something, the whole ether world, and then you're like "boop," there it is, and, okay, that was really nice to be able to get that information.

And the second part is that I have not spoken to ChatGPT. I have not put it out there and I don't intend to. When I was younger I did many drugs. I experimented like a mad scientist, but I was smart about it in that I did not allow it to consume me. I saw it for what it was. But the one [rule] at the time: "No heroin, Timmy! That will get you, that's a big no-no, you fool." And so I look at [AI] the same way. Why would I willingly walk through that door, when everybody's been shown the pitfalls waiting for when you do walk through.

I like that. I use AI for work [and] I find it really really useful but then yeah I find myself agreeing more and more with your perspective. It's scary to read the articles .

Yeah, and that's just as a civilian. If I were into computers, if I was a techie guy and I was into coding, you know? But this is not a good time to go into coding.

I disagree!

It's true that you could describe a website and AI will make it for you, but I could also go to Mexico not knowing a lick of Spanish and have smart glasses on that put the [translated] subtitles right in front of my face. But I would never go to Mexico [like] that. I want to be in the language of where I am [so it's worth it to learn Spanish even though I don't have to].

In 2025, computers aren't going anywhere. So there's so much value in just speaking their language.

And what you're describing with the glasses and the translators -Star Trek, hello? Science fiction is so – where's their royalties?

There's no royalties 'cause nobody's making any money yet. It's 1% of nothing.

Yeah, but that's the point. I was speaking to my banker guy: "Holy shit, man, this is a bubble . You know it's a bubble, we know it's a bubble" and it's just because they're hype-hype-hype-hype-hyping and does anybody see it just falling flat? Well, it's like the dot-com bubble back in the early aughts. They go public and suddenly they're worth a billion dollars and for what? Is it tangible? And then of course it explodes, but, then, what was left when it cleared? Those that had substance, those that actually had something to offer.

What do you think of the analogy between social media and addiction or a drug.

I don't think it's really an analogy. I think it's a fact. It's a real addiction.

I've been thinking about that with Bluesky. I've been getting into it and then I find I'm checking it more. The cynical part of me thinks as soon as you have some very basic elements [of social media] you have something very corrosive.

But then at the same time, I think about really powerful [cultural] norms like "Don't drink before 5:00 PM," "Don't drink alone." And gambling, go to the racetrack. Get out of the house, make it a special occasion to indulge in the vice rather than have it right here [on your phone]. [With Open Social] something hopeful is you could potentially really slice and dice. [For example,] you could make your own app that only works from 5 to 7 pm. It's kind of the sky's the limit [for customization and control].

Yeah, Bluesky's the limit. Every time I hear someone say, "Oh, yeah, you can devise a way so you can't even use your phone." It's kind of like you're trying to trick yourself. [Mimes tapping his shoulder.]

Whatever the original reason was, you know, Adam and Eve, it was beautiful. They had a wonderful garden, called it Eden, and then they fucked up and everything went kaplooey. And that's what happens with these guys, because when you have money and power involved, Jake, what's gonna happen? It's gonna become perverted. And speaking of which: My right arm is killing me with all the jacking off from this porn! Talk about your addictions. I just throw that out there (jokingly) because if you don't mention that you're not talking about anything.

I'm not gonna go all old man on you, like I remember my brother got me a subscription to Playboy and I had to wait once a month for it to arrive at the house in a brown paper cover that my Mom would leave for me with the rest of my mail, and I actually got it for the articles. But looking at that, the ramifications of that type of addiction, what it's done to our society and what it's going to continue to do. All these women are, like, "Where are the good guys. What's going on here?" It's because they're at home! [Mimes jacking off.] So if Bluesky can do something about that, I'm signing up!

Do you have any tips, any actual practical things that help you with the digital world?

I'm old. No, when I first got my phone in 2022, speaking to the kids, I said, "This thing is dangerous. It can be a useful tool, you can have a spade and, ha ha, look, I'm digging a hole, but you can also take that spade and beat the crap out of other people."

I have no advice for anybody, Jake. Because, again, as long as there are people who are making lots and lots and lots and lots of money, and have gained a lot of power and influence, there's not a damn thing you're gonna be able to do about it. Until the whole, yeah, there has to be the endgame. And then you just rise from the ashes, and I don't think I'm being negative, or there's any hyperbole involved, it just seems like a foregone conclusion to me. And, Jake, knowing you, knowing your intellect and knowing your heart, that gives me hope, leaves me with a hopeful twitch, because I know that eventually you'd be overpowered. I mean the eventual tech doom machine will just consume all the people with the best of intentions.

I'm gonna use that as the end quote.

Yeah. And, scene!